Unleash the power of 3D
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  • #24162 Likes: 0
    Anonymous
    • Posts 5

    Hi,

     

    I’m trying bforartists and I already like it a lot.

    But I have some questions:

    1 – Why is the Inset Tool removed from the Face Context menu? Was this a mistake? I use this tool all the time. How can I get that back?

    2 – Where is the Toggle Quadview command in the Hotkey Map? In Blender 3.0 is in Screen>Screen(Global) after Cancel Render View. But in Bforartist is not there. I know that Bforartist has a handy Quadview button, but I also like to map Spacebar to toggle the Quadview (like in Maya).

    #24163 Likes: 0
    Draise
    Participant
    • Posts 1153

    The inset tool is still in the face menu but under “legacy” since the identical tool is in the toolshelf with widgets and identical functionality. (Other than act once). You can remap any of the two to CTRL+I as an example. If you are in the Bforartists keymaps, you can press D to go back to tweaking. The toolshelf has same functionality but you can use it multiple times without repressing the legacy operator over and over again.

    To map the hotkey of quad view, you can right click the button or menu entry under the View menu in the 3D Editor header and set the hotkey there. We moved it top level in the 3D view so it should just be there in the first menu. I’m not at the comp now but it may also alternatively be in the header navigation menu. I can’t recall exactly but I do remember having it moved to top level in the header submenú in the 3D view editor (where it is relevant).

    If you need extra help we do have all the operators and editor locations listed and searchable in the PDF manual. Might make the answer come quicker!

    And really happy to see you make yourself at home here. Hope to see the art soon! Keep the questions coming.

    :dance:

    #24164 Likes: 0
    Anonymous
    • Posts 5

    Hi Draise, thanks for the answers. Some points:

    1 – I was talking about the “Face Context Menu” (the one you get when you click the right mouse button when you are using the Blender or Industry Standard Keymap) not the face menu. I saw the inset in the legacy part there as you said.

    The inset tool it is still in the Face Context Menu in Blender 3 but not on Bforartists. If you come from C4D or Maya, this is bad, because in both programs you can get the inset either with a Right click or Shift-Right Click. You should put the Inset back in the “Face Context Menu”.

    2 – Yes, i saw the Quad View command there and that’s how I assigned a shortcut. But why did you take it out form the list in the preferences? It just made the user’s life harder for no reason.

     

     

    #24165 Likes: 0
    BFA-Reiner
    Keymaster
    • Posts 545

    Hey mazurbr,

    1. We have removed it from the rmb menu because it is a legacy tool. Not sure if it is a good idea to add it back. Since the Inset tool is in the tool shelf, as a new tool. One of our missions is to clean up the UI.
    2. Bforartists is not hotkey centered. The decision to remove the hotkey for quad view comes from cleaning up the keymap to free hotkeys so that you as a user can decide to add your own hotkey to a tool. Quadview is in general not so often used, and doesn’t really deserve a keymap entry. Especially since we have added it to the Align View buttons addon up right. Activate it, and you are one top level UI click away from toggling quad view 🙂

    Kind regards

    Reiner

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    #24167 Likes: 0
    Draise
    Participant
    • Posts 1153

    1. Concerning the context menu entry for Inset, maybe this could be created as an issue in the tracker. We removed it because it’s now a double and legacy entry, which is redundant and bloat concerning the GUI. We try to keep things as minimal as possible with as few double entries as possible, with priority of minimization mostly in hard to discover right click menus putting priority in top level GUI as a design choice for discoverability and ease of use (no hidden operators in floating menus), also the argument that single mouse over and click at a known loacation vs click then zig zag through floating dynamic menus and sub menus should be intentional design – thus the toolshelf and custom tool header. The other argument is that the modal method of inset is only accessible via hotkey and the toolshelf – so can’t be listed in the right click context menu. The older inset method is also legacy operator from Blender, which technically is slated to be phased out by Blender eveeeeeentually – but maybe we could do an exception for you. I’ll make a tracker issue to debate it, at least maybe add the default hotkey for it or “Add back legacy sub-menus to Context Menus”.

    2. The reason for not including it is that the Bforartists keymap is intentionally minimal to allow for user customization, since the Keymap manager as it stands has little or no way to conflict check, no visual assignment, little or no access to the API to assign things  – so best to keep it bare bones for easier user customization. Blender hasn’t updated that system in nearly a decade now. We could make an issue to add a few more industry compatible hotkeys to the Bforartists defaults – but if anything you can always switch to the Blender or Industry compatible hotkeys without using Bforartists default keymap. The splashscreen shows a method to change keymaps, or you can do it directly in the preferences. There are some options there. Is the toggle quad view the only hotkey you’d like in the defaults? Do you have any others?

     

    :dance:

    #24168 Likes: 0
    Anonymous
    • Posts 5

    Thanks for the quick reply guys. I appreciate.

    But let me argue against both points. 🙂 Bforartists should be a more friendly version of Bender, right?

    1 – Well, while I agree that is great that Bforartists wants to be less hotkey centric (which I agree with) there are some common used hotkeys that are used by the three main 3D apps in the market: Maya, Cinema 4D and 3dsMax. In all of them you have a quick hotkey to change from single to Quadview (Spacebar in Maya, middle mouse in Cinema 4D, Alt-W in 3ds Max). This is the type of common hotkeys that even people that prefer to do most of things in the menus (my case) will still use.

    2 – The removal of the inset in the context is still a mistake. The inset in the Context Menu of Blender 3 is not the legacy one, it’s the current one. And, again, if we want to make Bforartists friendly to people transitioning from other programs, this is a must. Because you have the equivalent of Inset in the Face Contextual manu of all the main 3D apps (Inset in 3ds Max, Extrude Inner in C4D and Extrude offset in Maya).

    Again, those are minor things but they are important. Right now I’m using Blender 3 instead of Bforartists because I can map the Quadview to Spacebar and I have Inset in the contextual menu.

    On the other hand, Bfortists let me map the different Mesh Select Modes (Face, Vertex and Edges) to the Quick Favorites, emulating the Marking Menus in Maya, which is great and I can do that in Blender 3.

     

    #24169 Likes: 0
    BFA-Reiner
    Keymaster
    • Posts 545

    Thanks for your feedback 🙂

    Well, it’s about the goals and the philosophy. What you call a mistake is a necessity to me. In an ideal world we could please everybody, and provide his favourite hotkey for everything. But we have to make some compromises here and there. Hotkeys is one of those areas. The new and old toolset is another one of it.

    As Draise already pointed out, you could still switch to the Blender keymap. Or use the Industry Compatible one. But i think that we have with our own keymap a keymap that fits most needs.

    Kind regards

    Reiner

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    #24171 Likes: 0
    Anonymous
    • Posts 5

    I think I expressed myself wrongly them. I don’t want you to remove anytthing from Bforartist keymap. I just wanted to have the option to map the keymap way I like in Bforartists but you guys removed this option and removed some a key command for modellers (inset) from the contextual menu.

    So I guess in the end Blender it’s more artist friendly than Bforartists.

    Good luck with your project.

    #24172 Likes: 0
    BFA-Reiner
    Keymaster
    • Posts 545

    Hi mazubr,

    You can still assign your hotkey if you want. You can still use the Blender keymap if you want. So the only thing that is missing is one particular menu entry that you expect at the place where Blender has it. And this menu item is not missing, but simply at another location in the UI. So in this regards you miss exactly nothing.

    We are simply not Blender. There are vital differences. That’s what the fork is about. The fork is not only about a few colored icons. But to improve the whole UI where possible. And we have a gazillion of these improvements that you might now miss because you are unhappy with one particular change.

    That said, I wish you good luck with Blender. Allowed is what works. And when Blender works better for you then i am happy with you.

    Kind regards

    Reiner

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    #24180 Likes: 0
    Draise
    Participant
    • Posts 1153

    With all things said, @marzurbr I’m gonna organize the Context menus a little, the Inset Face will go up to it again as I did find a lot of inconsistencies there. I should get it committed later this week.

    Thanks for the feedback.

    :dance:

    #24182 Likes: 0
    Anonymous
    • Posts 5

    Thank you Draise.

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