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  • #14338 Likes: 0
    Reiner
    Participant
    • Posts 4699

    Initially i wanted to do this by myself when i am through with the changes, and Bforartists is version 1, or at least very close to it. There’s still the posibility that the one or another menu or tool changes. And so the hotkeys. And we still find the one or another inconsistency with the Bforartists keymap. But you don’t need programming skills here. Just lots of time.

    So when somebody has this lots of time left: You could try to apply the vital changes from the Bforartists keymap to the Blender keymap. So that we have a Bforartists Full keymap with most of the hotkeys from Blender, but the controls from Bforartists. Best of both worlds so to say. And i will include it then in Bforartists so that the user can choose it.

    But be warned. This is a bit of a hells job. You need to remap quite a few hotkeys. Plus some of the call menu hotkeys are disfunctional now since those menus doesn’t exist anymore. Plus other trouble ahead. Like writing the whole keymap down for the manual etc. I have once spent three months to create the Bforartists keymap ^^

    #17612 Likes: 0
    Reiner
    Participant
    • Posts 4699

    Task created: https://www.bforartists.de/content/create-bforartists-full-keymap

    When somebody wants to assign, then please tell me, and i will give you developer status for this.

    #17615 Likes: 0
    davis
    Participant
    • Posts 295

    That sounds great, definetely what BfA needs for an advanced workflow. – Unfortunately I don´t have as much time like you´re quoting to spend and also feel, that I don´t have enough experience working in BfA/Blender to make really useful decisions here.

    Maybe you can explain the process of remapping the hotkeys a bit more in detail? I guess there is a faster way than going over the menu in the internal user preferences one by one?

    #17623 Likes: 0
    Reiner
    Participant
    • Posts 4699

    No, unfortunately not. There’s just the one by one approach ^^

    You can do this by comparing the settings in the user preferences though. So no need to hunt the items in the menus each. But it remains a painful and time consuming task ^^

    #17628 Likes: 0
    davis
    Participant
    • Posts 295

    But it´s basically a text comparison to start with, wouldn´t a tool like Meld work for this to speed up the process of comparing and copying settings?

    http://meldmerge.org/ – Just a quick google search, I am sure there are other and maybe better tools available – This must be something programmers face all the time, when comparing code.

    The job would be to put all the shortcut keys in that are not yet taken by BfA and avoid having two shortcuts for the same function. – Is that correct, or am I missing something?

    #17629 Likes: 0
    Reiner
    Participant
    • Posts 4699

    Theoretically yes. But not all hotkeys are in the keymap text file. Some are hardcoded. And then you don’t have something that you could compare. That’s why there is just the one by one comparison left. But as told, you can do this part also in the user preferences.

    In the end everything working is allowed :)

    And Meld is great. I use it here too.

    The job would be to put all the shortcut keys in that are not yet taken by BfA and avoid having two shortcuts for the same function. – Is that correct, or am I missing something?

    Exact. Plus finding a new home for the Blender hotkeys that are now occupied by the Bforartists hotkeys. G R S versus W E R for example. And ideally at the end also write the doc for it :)

    #17638 Likes: 0
    Draise
    Participant
    • Posts 1185

    You can assign them to me!!!!.. as long as I can put in F as focus and R for radius.. yes yes yes? Deal deal?

    (I have done that already in my personal shortctus, and I think every 3D software I’ve used other than Blender has F for focus)

    I have edited and crosschecked the Blender and BFA shortcuts for my personal use already, and spliced a lot of Blender into BFA for what was lacking – removing conflicts. It didn’t take me 5 hours, as I used the python programming and comparison between documents manually, taking notes of what is where and then splicing code directly, outside Blender. I often replace the *.PY files or export/import my own keymaps on updates – and port them to other computers and settings, having had little problems. I am only cleaning up shortcuts, though I have modified a bunch of things for my self as BFA didin’t have the shortcut and Blenders shortcuts were sometimes absurd and umcomfortable.

    I just have some questions:

    • For when would this be due ideally?
    • How many blender shortcuts do I include? All that I can? (It’s rediculous how many they have)
    • For documentation, how do I edit/work/update it?

    My proposal :

    • Splicing the two, make sure they work (as I have done for my own map system)
    • Compatibility with Pie menus addon and Node Wrangler addon
    • Create keyboard image maps representations for easy visual learning of said keymap in/for documentation
    • Update documentation
    • Optional: adding/changing/updating/optimizing shortcuts for ease of use and one hand ergonomics in mind for different workflows and a Blender/BFA symbiotic shortcut relationship with open discussion

      • Suggestion: adding F for focus, a key most artists use every few seconds typically (and it is a pain in the butt having to move the arm to the number pad multiple times a minute, and more so when there sometimes is no number pad)
      • Suggestion: R for radius (to replace F for focus)
      • Proposal: Modeling shortcuts on one hand suggestions (no second half of keyboard) – based on first 5 numbers on number row and keys below and around WER with combos for depth. Why? For no hand movement over keyboard, similar to gamer ergonomics and the philosophy of having only one hand on keyboard side and the other on mouse at all times.
      • Proposal: Scultping shortcuts – based on number row and keys on and below and around WER
      • Suggestion: XCV for respective selection types, point/edge/face (Edit Mode)
      • Suggestion: 123 (Armature Selection) for Object/Pose/Edit respectvely
      • Suggestion: Shift/Ctrl/Alt combo on F12 for OpenGL Image/Animation addition

    • Delivery in mid December

    Needs:

    • Understand how to edit documentation
    • New Branding image/colours (for visual keyboard styling to add to manuals)
    • Understand what is flexible and what is not.

      • For now, the WER keys need to splice in with Blender, top priority
      • The floating menu calls in Blender needs to be removed/commented out
      • The Number row functions need to make sure they don’t conflict, BFA as priority
      • The unwrapping keys of of BFA, the M and N needs to have priority
      • Anything else?

    • Study/document/analyse pros and cons of other standard software shortcuts to see what works and doesn’t?

    What do you think? I can stick to the plan and just splice and update documentation, but I’d also love to try add in a shortcut ergonomics addition to the great work you have already done. But if not, I’ll understand, and will be happy to just splice and document over time, something assigned finally.

    .

     

    :dance:

    #17641 Likes: 0
    davis
    Participant
    • Posts 295

    I assume you got much more training with all the BfA/Blender workflow than I do (20 year Max user here ^^), so great that you are volunteering for this.

    May I suggest to include the “left click drag select” into this? I am using BfA for a few weeks like this now and it works great. The Max and Maya Keymaps of Blender also use this setting.

    #17643 Likes: 0
    Reiner
    Participant
    • Posts 4699

    Hey Draise,

    I find this great. Thanks for volunteering. I’ll give you dev status. And will assign you at this task.

    But please note that we have to stay as close as possible at the Bforartists keymap. We cannot have two completely different keymaps. I hope you understand this. We can of course talk about the one or another hotkey. We did in the past already. But the wer key mapping is one of the hotkeys that must stay. That’s the home row. Same goes for y,x,c for the modes. And 1 to 8 for the modes. Radius is by the way currently mapped to F as a substitute for R.

    I find it a good idea though to map the focus key away from numpad zero. I hate it too. So you have my okay at this one. We just need to find a useful hotkey here.

    But please stay as close as possible at the Blender keymap too. When Blender users cannot migrate, then we have won exactly nothing with the full keymap. Different hotkeys should be an exception where there is no other solution, or where the benefits are really big. Like for focus.

    Rest will happen while development. Have fun :)

     

    #17657 Likes: 0
    Draise
    Participant
    • Posts 1185

    Can I ask… why Vertex/Edge/Face select mode should be XC then jump all the way to Y for vertice?? It’s similar to Blenders SRG for scale, rotate, translate. I’m just tring to understand why it’s good to fix WER for SRG and not XCY (edit mode) for XCV, considering that 3 consistent ways to 1 thing should go together?

    Unless.. I must be confusing the English keyboard with a German one?! Maybe the Z is in the place of the Y. Y is beside the T and before the U and above the H in English. Far away from the X and C.

    Googled.. yehp.. that’s the issue.

    WER is great.

    :dance:

    #17659 Likes: 0
    Reiner
    Participant
    • Posts 4699

    Can I ask… why Vertex/Edge/Face select mode should be XC then jump all the way to Y for vertice??

    Ah, you got a really good point here. At a german keyboard the yxc keys are besides each other, down left. The american keyboard layout has z and y switched. Phew, this makes things very complicated now. I haven’t thought about this :/

    One solution could be divided keymaps. German layout and and american layout. But this would blow up the documentation. And raises the question with which keymap to start. What are your ideas here?

    As a sidenote, D would be free for focus.

    EDIT: task created for the keymap issue: https://www.bforartists.de/content/german-american-keyboard-layout-issues

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