for 2.8, idea for a beginner friendlier outline panel

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for 2.8, idea for a beginner friendlier outline panel
  • The Bforartists usage is centered around the graphical menu, not hotkeys. Bforartists relies at an intuitive and self explaining graphical UI in the first place. And then the hotkeys.

So I read this line in the description of Bforartists. 

And with 2.8 comming out I think this presents an oppurtunity for Bofartist to implement something to make the outline panel in 2.8 more intuitive

I posted this on RCS and it isn't getting traction, and I don't see why really. 

IMO blender should have two version the seasoned version and one  to better train beginners to help them eventually transition to a U.I. that's more stripped of hints. 

    The only real down side to this idea (below) is for regular blender users is there being hide arrow button.

    but if BLender is going to do this then this is where Bofartist can. 

    Object Mode separate object creation easier to get for new users:

    Picture sums everything up. the outline would look different based on what mode you're in. and so one will immediately notice a distinction/influence taking place. when people see that these icons are not in the outline panel while in edit mode, they will immediately understand this link. this will instant give new users a stronger sense of contrast between the modes.

    the outline panel bottom tab could be hidden like the transform panel for people that get it.

    also an icon that serves as the P key could be interesting. this icon would appear in edit mode only.

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    Reiner's picture
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    Hi paprika,

    Hi paprika,

    Thanks for the suggestion. We will think about this, and then have a look what we can do. But even when we would agree on the usefulness, it would unfortunately not be so easy to implement. So i wouldn't hang the hopes too high :)

    Kind regards

    Reiner

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    Reiner's picture
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    I now have thought about this

    I now have thought about this. And as sorry as i am, we must decline this idea. It would be a double menu entry without any big use. And would even lead to confusion. Adding an object is done in the 3D view already, by the Add menu. Furthermore we have the toolbar, where you can add primitives with just one click. The outliner is not the place to add objects.

    Kind regards

    Reiner

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    p4prik4's picture
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    It would be a double menu

    It would be a double menu entry without any big use. And would even lead to confusion. 

    fyi that logic would do away with the tool bar (Tkey) panel. because you can access extrude,bisect, transform tools etc in edit mode

    I think its a big use, when it means being able to get the program from the get go (great first impression), and can hide pretty much permanently when you've gotten the hang of it. 

    so since there are no big drawback (click once to hide it if don't like.) it can mean having it even though it does not solve a big issue per se, means there's comparatively little harm done and so would cancel out/be a draw sort to speak in terms of value to repitition ratio. 

    I thought Bforartist was about catering to those who are  less offended to more holding hand type features (if that means repetition, that's easily hide-able, so be it). 

    Plus could even free up some keys like ctrl x,c,v.

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    Draise's picture
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    True. I would though, love to

    True. I would though, love to have scene and collection buttons for the outliner, like create, re-order, etc.But that would be another feature request for another day to think about.

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    -Draise

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    The add new collection button

    The add new collection button is already there Smile

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    Draise's picture
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    Totally missed it! Needs a

    Totally missed it! Needs a plus sign or something. Haha

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    -Draise

    p4prik4's picture
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    This isn't so much about

    This isn't so much about whether or not you can alreadt add or if there is a place for this already. this is about emphasizing something that newbies used to certain way of things being done, to notice that blender does it in a qwirky way.  

    I'm not saying people that do get confused wont eventually get around to learning how to create from object and edit work with the outline panel. that is if they are somewhate determined to learn blender. 

    this post show another person who experienced this issue:

    https://devtalk.blender.org/t/as-a-begginer-why-do-i-need-to-research-on...

     

    I wil lsay this. that something is absolutely missing in clarity that is for certain.  how to remedy i'm not sure. surely a guide that emphasizes certain things might help. below i've attached pictures that talk about trying to put more focus on the Object/edit... navigator bar. 

    workspaces for example have as much if not more priority than object vs edit mode and you don't know they are workspaces unless you click the plus sign. 

    I would also be curious how many newbies even bother with the many workspaces when they mostly just want to focus on one area and have their hands full with that one as it is. 

    This isn't so much about whether or not you can alreadt add or if there is a place for this already. this is about emphasizing something that newbies used to certain way of things being done, to notice that blender does it in a qwirky way.  

    I'm not saying people that do get confused wont eventually get around to learning how to create from object and edit work with the outline panel. that is if they are somewhate determined to learn blender. 

    this post show another person who experienced this issue:

    https://devtalk.blender.org/t/as-a-begginer-why-do-i-need-to-research-on...

     

    I wil lsay this. that something is absolutely missing in clarity that is for certain.  how to remedy i'm not sure. surely a guide that emphasizes certain things might help. below i've attached pictures that talk about trying to put more focus on the Object/edit... navigator bar. 

    workspaces for example have as much if not more priority than object vs edit mode and you don't know they are workspaces unless you click the plus sign. 

    I would also be curious how many newbies even bother with the many workspaces when they mostly just want to focus on one area and have their hands full with that one as it is. 

    though with instant hover reveal I think hovering over a workspaces menu dropdown would be more clear. 

    I realize I spend very little time other than to click on addons and keymaps (it being a hotkey heavy software) but eventually i'll have configured everything just right and hardly need to access the top-most nav. 

    even to save I don't need to access the file drop down, I have it with Machin3tools pie menu.

    I realize I spend very little time other than to click on addons and keymaps (it being a hotkey heavy software) but eventually i'll have configured everything just right and hardly need to access the top-most nav. 

    even to save I don't need to access the file drop down, I have it with Machin3tools pie menu.

     

    below is a picture of how you can easily access and hide the panel storing all important things like bookmarks history etc in vivaldi browser. when you hover over it  a tool tip says show panel. but maybe have it even reveal on hover could do the trick. 

    it would also add screen realestate for 3d viewport. 

    I would rather a prompt that tells me everytime I launch blender and shows a gif image of how this panel works. a prompt i have to click checkbox to prevent me from seeing again. 

    and maybe a permanent link on the splash screen titled:   Having difficulty finding the Main Menu Top Bar?

    this could be placed above the Released Notes link

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    Reiner's picture
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    That the Blender way is a

    That the Blender way is a quirky one is known. That's why i have started the fork. But the goal of a user friendly UI is definitely not to reach with cluttering the interface with even more double menu entries. Blender has over 1500 different operators. And they all need their place in the UI. Make them double and you have 3000 operators that you need to keep in mind, and where you have to search for the one that you need. That's 2999 in the way then. Some entries even existed up to four times in Blender 2.7x!

    The Bforartists UI philosophy is to have the most needed tools at a good to reach UI location. Once. For example all tools in the tool shelf, and just in the tool shelf. Not multiple times cluttered across the interface like even in Blender 2.8x. The toolbar is the big exception. It can be configured to your own needs. And so it is by design one big double menu entry. But everything else should just exist once in the UI.

    We were nearly there with Bfoartists 1. And i would suggest to have a look at it. This gives you an idea in which direction also Bforartists 2 is heading. But now with Blender 2.8 we have started from scratch. This is not done in a few days. To finish Bforartists 1 took us three years. I expect also with Bforartists 2 to have an equal long development cycle. So please be patient. The UI will become much clearer in the future.

    Kind regards

    Reiner

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    p4prik4's picture
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    one of the comments on

    one of the comments on devtalk said this:"

    ThinkingPolygons Dec '18 The OP is right, this is a long time issue in blender, most of the things are not where you expect it to be."

     

    point is my suggestion may not be the best method but there is a problem.  I realize you have your hands full, but addressing this would be precicely the sort of thing that I would want to find from using Bofartist over blender, & so others not need experience these quirks, 

    I think maybe just having a website devoted to highlighting blender's quirkyness would almost do more than a fork would at least in terms of getting a solution out sooner.

    since 2.8 is quite far ahead by now, some fiddling / pie menu customization and such can remedy a lot. 

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